Moving Peaces - Page 9 of 46 - Moving Pieces. Moving Places. Moving Peacefully.

Wondering about Wanderlust

May 4, 2015Samantha Gratton

My passport is still sitting on my bedside table.

You know, the table that holds a little lamp, the latest book I’m reading, my (cheap) jewelry, a few hair ties and whatever I may empty from my pockets at the end of the day. Oh, and on nights that I can’t sleep or have a little cough, there’s also a glass of water just waiting to be tipped over when I reach across to silence my alarm in the morning. This is not the proper place for a passport to rest.

Upon returning from a recent trip to Argentina, I immediately threw all of my clothes in the wash, but the rest of my bag and all of its contents lingered. I removed my passport out of my purse and probably just placed it on the table in passing before returning it back to its rightful place in the safe. But now I just can’t bring myself to do it.

It feels like putting it away is acknowledging that a chapter of my life has closed. The chapter where I travel to different parts of the world and experience all sorts of new things. Whether that’s true or not, I do not know. Without a firm answer to that question, I cannot bring myself to tuck it away. Every morning, there’s my passport…simultaneously inspiring me and taunting me, suggesting there’s more to explore and another adventure yet in store.

I’m not sure what I’m more afraid of: the end of an era or what it would take to call myself a world-traveler.

I love to travel. I love learning about another culture and talking with people who live in an area so different than my own. This isn’t a quest for a nonstop vacation or spending time in countless resorts. To me, travel is about exploration…in hopes of bettering myself and the world. Hearing the stories of others, challenging myself to go outside my comfort zone and helping those I encounter along the way.

But when do we know it’s time to stop? When is it time to focus on what’s in front of us instead of constantly searching for more? When is it pursuing dreams and when is it discontentment or worse, disillusion? What if a pursuit of travel is far from meaningful–barely even personal development and merely selfishness in disguise?

What is it that I am trying to accomplish? Is it worthwhile? Is it necessary? Is it beneficial? At what cost?

I’ve wrestled with these questions constantly, leaving me unsettled and almost frantic for some sort of resolve or conclusion, to no avail. Hence, my passport and I maintain our standstill, unable to move forward and unwilling to turn back.

Why? Why is this my response? Normal people can take a trip for two weeks, show off the photos and talk about how they had great a time before returning to regular daily life. Either I’m not normal, or I don’t want to be.

Call me naive, but I so desperately want to be intentional with my life–to do something, to make it count. At home it seems that I can’t help but fall into a routine between work, friends, a few hobbies and some TV. Maybe that’s why travel is so appealing to me–it forces me out of that routine. It asks so much more from me, and I eagerly comply.

I see travel as my opportunity, my challenge to do something more than live a predictable and average American life. What if I set foot on every continent, learned another language and propelled my life towards a bigger story full of excitement and uncertainty? A few weeks of travel here and there over the course of a lifetime hardly feels like enough time to embrace and understand another culture. What if I challenged myself to leave everything I’ve ever known for some sort of unknown across the world? What a life to live, what a story to tell…isn’t that worth pursuing?

Conversely, what would I be leaving? Career aspirations, friendships, community, roots. Would the pursuit of international exploration risk or overlook my commitments, lasting relationships or long-term investments? Could that leave me feeling empty and shallow, despite the collection of incredible photos?

I was given this life, my life, and I can’t stand the idea of just letting it slide on by. I don’t want to “play it safe” and gradually surround myself with comfort and routine, yet I don’t want to chase a life of adventures merely for the sake of a bucket list or another story to tell while potentially undervaluing commitment, consistency and responsibility.

Maybe it’s not one or the other. Maybe there’s a balance to be found in it all without compromising one or the other. For some, perhaps the answer is more clear, but for me it continues to be a struggle. So, my passport, a simple booklet with a few stamps, sits by my bed and waits while begging the question: what’s next?

This Week’s Three

May 1, 2015Samantha Gratton

Let’s just squeeze this in real quick, shall we? Because the week went faster than I planned and last night we practiced for our gig tonight.

1. Don’t underestimate people. Such a generic statement…that will continue to be generic, but I just feel it needs to be said. There are amazing people out in the world, people who will jump at a moment’s notice to help or can’t wait to be your friend. There are people who are absolutely brilliant stuck in a job that doesn’t capitalize on their skills, and there are people who might be the most loyal friend you’ll ever meet but you met them on a bad day. I don’t care who it is, they’ve got worth and value. That includes you, too–don’t underestimate yourself.

2. Date night is the best night. We had a gift card to some new sushi place and devoured that entire plate of sushi. I had my doubts that we could do it, but it was delicious.

3. I’m a happy planner. Some people are happy campers, but I didn’t grow up camping. No, instead I spent my time planning whatever was next in life. This is not always a good thing…but it is my thing. Lucky for me, I’m in the midst of planning a trip or two and a few shows to see this summer. I’m so excited to see Jim Gaffigan soon!

Iguazu Falls Photos

April 29, 2015May 26, 2015Samantha Gratton

Okay, we’ve been back for over a month now. It’s high time we shared some photos, don’t you think? We obviously took more than a few pictures, so I had no idea how to narrow them down. Lucky for you, I have a blog and can just make plenty of posts.

For those of you who hadn’t heard, we took a two week trip to Argentina back in March. Then we got back and were inundated with everyday life immediately. Sometimes it’s crazy to think we even went at all, but then we look at the pictures and remember how epic it was.

Let’s start with pictures from Iguazu Falls (also known as Cataratas del Iguazo). Not the first place we went, but definitely the first thing we talk about. It was so breathtaking that for two straight days all we could do was look around in awe, beaming like crazy people.

The ridiculous thing is, the pictures don’t even come close to doing it justice.

Iguazu Falls is basically in the middle of the jungle, in the middle of nowhere in northern Argentina. You can either take a super long bus ride or another flight from Buenos Aires. Given our short amount of time (and a long bus ride scheduled later on) we went with the flight. Unfortunately for us, the day we were supposed to fly out there ended up being an airline strike. After a little bit of stress and a lot of rescheduling, we ended up at Iguazu Falls two days later. It was worth it.

It seems a lot of people aren’t aware of Iguazu Falls. In fact, many people had not even heard of it when I said it was a big reason for choosing to visit Argentina. In case you were thinking it was some small local waterfall, you’d be wrong. (For reference, it’s more than double the width of Niagra Falls.)

We spent two days hiking around the falls with all of its incredible walkways. Lush greens, beautiful rainbows and more butterflies than we could have imagined were everywhere.

We even went on a boat. You see that one? Headed straight toward the falls? Yep…it looks teeny but has probably about 40 people on it. And yes, it did go straight to the falls and we did indeed get soaked.

Then we found more water and got soaked again. Because why not? (Oh yeah, and it was 95 degrees outside)

Within the first week of our trip, we saw Iguazu Falls and couldn’t help but feel like nothing else would ever be able to top it.

Update: While I had good intentions of posting more photos from the trip, my awesome husband created a video which seems to cover it.

Nifty Thrifty: With a Purpose

April 27, 2015April 27, 2015Samantha Gratton

It’s been too long since I’ve done a Nifty Thrifty post! But spring is here and suddenly all my clothes seem dated, but not in the vintage and cute way. It’s high time for another awesome thrift store find or two.

I’ll admit it, there have been many occasions that I go into a thrift store and walk away with nothing. On the one hand, I’m glad I didn’t buy something “just because” but usually I’m disappointed that shuffling through all of those racks of clothing amounted to nothing. I much prefer knowing I made good use of my time.

Good news!!

A blogging and Iowa friend of mine is throwing the biggest thrifty online sale I’ve seen and all for a wonderful reason. You see, she is currently a mama to two sweet little boys…but she and her husband, Jonny, are ready to love and raise a few more. Adoption is something very near and dear to their hearts (one of their sons was adopted), and they feel led to adopt again! She wrote down more of the story, so I’ll share bits and pieces of what she had to say about it in a minute (but I’m guessing you’re starting to wonder where the Nifty Thrifty comes in).

Tonight, y’all, you can both support her family’s adoption AND update your spring/summer wardrobe all from the comfort of your home. No racks to sort through or ugly sweaters to avoid. Heck yes. She’s been posting teasers all week…and I have a feeling things will go fast once the sale starts tonight at 8:00/7:00 central.

Here’s a little of Kayla’s story:

I became a mom in a fashion that only God could create. I was a young, twenty-something newlywed learning more about the world, and more about its creator, every day. We weren’t perfect, but we couldn’t help but sense that God was leading us both down a path to parenthood that, in the world’s eyes, was a bit unconventional.

My husband and I both started to feel the tug on our hearts for children who didn’t have families. We both grew up in safe and loving two-parent homes, and we couldn’t shake the idea of little ones not growing up without the structure and nurture a family provides. We knew we couldn’t do everything, but we could be open to doing something. We prayed, and asked God to lead.

Joseph joined our family via adoption from West Africa (you can learn much more about that here), and our lives have been so radically blessed by his presence. We grieve for what he lost with his first family, but we praise God that he writes beautiful stories from brokenness.

Fast forward two years, and we welcomed a second son into our lives, this time the old-fashioned way. Asher fits into our family perfectly, and it’s a joy to see my sons grow and learn and play and explore life together.

And now, our hearts are open to more. And we continue to believe that God will form our family once again through adoption. There are children here and abroad waiting for safe and loving homes, and it’s at the core of our heart that we might have the privilege of being a family for another little one (or ones). Due to logistics, this time our process will happen in the U.S. instead of abroad. We’re not quite sure what this adoption will look like, though we know we want to be a family for a waiting child.

Adoption, as I’m sure you’ve probably heard, can be costly. Social workers, attorneys, agencies — each are compensated to ensure things are handled the right way. We’re a young family that has been saving for a second adoption since we completed our first. Every Christmas gift, every extra bit, has gone into a special account for “someday.” And someday is here!

The Details for Tonight:

We’re hosting a GIANT shop-our-closets sale (tonight) Monday, April 27 at 8/7 p.m.

I gathered more than 10 of my most stylish friends of all shapes and sizes, and together, we cleaned out our closets.
We have around 200 gently-worn items in quality brands (think J. Crew, Banana Republic, Gap, Free People, Anthropologie, Sevenly).
We’re selling it ALL (think 25+ dresses, 75+ tops, skirts, ethically-made jewelry, scarves, heels) in a HUGE Instagram auction-style fundraiser to combat adoption fees.
To join in on the sale: Follow us at @craigsadopt, and get those bidding fingers ready!
To bid, you must have a PayPal account. If you don’t yet, go sign up here!
Each item will have a fairly low starting bid price, though we hope you have fun and bid generously! The sale will go on for 24 hours, and 100 percent of all money is going directly to our adoption account.

I’m excited for this, friends. I know Kayla is a great mom, and I think adoption is an amazing thing. If you feel like donating to the fund or simply want a new (used) piece of clothing, I encourage you to check out the sale later tonight. I know I will!

Thursday Three

April 23, 2015June 13, 2015Samantha Gratton

You know the drill. Time for the Thursday Three. Let’s do this!

1. My husband has a new love: the garden. Last weekend half the neighborhood decided it was time to plant, so an all-day adventure ensued. From the tomato lady to the farmers’ market and house to house, we all managed to put some dirt and veggies in the ground. For whatever reason the prime planting time seemed to occur after dark. Now we just get to watch our little garden grow (and it’s going to be even better than last year’s).

Neighborhood Gardening | Moving Peaces — Selfie by Cindy…because she’s awesome

2. Cars break. Or the A/C does when you live in the South. Sigh. So annoying. I hate spending so much money on lame things like car repairs when I know I could fly to Hawaii for about the same amount. The downside of older cars is never knowing when to say, “No more repairs, time for a different car.” We had a pretty good (albeit busy) week…but I just wanted to keep things real and let you know that our car is feeling finicky.

3. Blogging has its perks. Honestly, the biggest perk is getting to connect with people, be it in person or online. I love getting emails from people telling me their story or someone coming up to me and saying how much a certain post meant to them. As much as I write just because I love it, I write in hopes of encouraging or inspiring someone else.

Selfie by Stephanie from A Style of Her Own

Also…blogging sometimes has perks in the form of swag and I’m not about to turn that opportunity down. Tonight I attended a local blogging event where I got to meet so many other lovely bloggers while we ate PDQ (good chicken) and checked out what is to come for the Southern Women’s Show this weekend. I figured, why not? I’m a Southern woman now, right? And then they gave us more swag than I knew what to do with.

News on the Job Front

April 21, 2015July 1, 2015Samantha Gratton

Back in February, I had a few choices to make and offers to consider. It came through around the same time that I was realizing my strengths and possibilities and feel more at peace with where I was in life. I didn’t love being without a job for so long, but I finally found the flexibility it afforded me and uncovered some of the dreams that had long been ignored. Last June, I had so desperately wanted to hurry up the process and shake out the remedies, but that just wasn’t the way it went.

Instead, I got to pour into my blog, plan an awesome event, invest in relationships around me, submit my writing to a major publication, play my first gig, start doing voice overs and freelance work, ask what if and go on a big trip.

Do you know how full those nine months in between jobs were? Full of questions, doubt, tears, struggle and uncertainty, sure. But also full of time, opportunity, challenge and joy.

It was far from easy, and I will continue to be a voice and sounding board for those in the midst of a job search. It is some sort of terrible to face rejection after rejection and doubt everything you’ve ever known career-wise. But I also want to share the other side, the side where I found a job.

I wish I could explain all the ways I’ve seen good come out of all of this mess this past year. It was never a guarantee that things would end up the way they did, and I will surely face trials in the days and years to come. Life brings pain and hardship, because that’s how it goes sometimes. It’s what reminds us we aren’t invincible–that we need friends, family and God in it all.

There’s a lot to learn still about my new position and what all it will entail. Right now I know that I’ll get to write, communicate and think creatively. As far as logistics go, I have the option to work from home or in the office just 20 minutes away. I get to work with a team and help a company continue to grow. And on top of that, they want me to keep going after my hopes and goals in my spare time: to keep blogging, dreaming and being me.

So thanks for listening to me and offering encouragement. Thanks for putting up with the rants and enduring the in-between. I’m glad to be where I am now but also grateful for the journey, as tough as it was.

(There are a lot of links in there…mostly to other parts of the story. This wasn’t a short story, and I have a feeling the story isn’t over yet.)

UPDATE: Sadly, this job did not work out. Major bummer. I’ve edited out some of the specifics about the job and company but decided to keep the post. It was triumphant, not only about the new job but also a celebration of everything I had learned and how far I had come. I stand by that celebration of growth today, despite the disappointment of how things happened in this particular job.

Thursday Three

April 16, 2015April 16, 2015Samantha Gratton

I had high hopes of sharing so many wonderful things with you via blog post earlier this week. (Because we all know it’s high time I finally posted some photos from our trip.) Alas, the week got away from me, and you’ll just have to keep waiting. Soon. But for now, let’s keep with the regularly scheduled programming. I know you know it’s time for the Thursday Three, so here we go.

1. There are rules and then there are realities. We all have things we need to do and it is what it is (like taxes or sleeping). But then there are things we feel we need to do, like blog more often or dust the ceiling fan or create a bucket list or say yes to everything. These are the things that pile up fast and seem to stress me out the most. The reality is, I don’t have to do all of those things all the time.

So maybe I spent more time with friends this week and less time writing–that’s okay. Maybe next week I’ll write 3 blog posts and finally practice ukulele, or maybe I’ll just go for a bike ride every day instead. Here’s what I’m getting at: We impose these goals and expectations on ourselves sometimes that aren’t actual necessities. That in itself is not a bad thing so long as we learn to make the distinction. So try not to get caught up in the stress of things that aren’t actually required and enjoy the life you do have. (Also, please don’t ever examine the top of my ceiling fan.)

2. Don’t spend all your time on the couch. Sure, sometimes we all need a breather, and I’ve definitely got my shows on Netflix. But try to make the time you have count. Don’t let it stress you out, but explore new opportunities and try new things. Plant a garden, try yoga, check out a networking event, read a book–you know, things.

3. We all do a little trial and error. Often it feels like if we don’t get something right the first or second time, it must not be for us. While I think we each have different talents and gifts, we have to leave room for trial and error. That’s part of learning and persevering. So much of life is full of trial and error…so just go ahead and try.

Thursday Three

April 9, 2015Samantha Gratton

This week’s three comes to you from my dark little house as it thunders and lightnings (?) outside. Don’t worry, my power is still on…I just somehow feel like a power outage is less frightening if the lights are already off. I know, I’m weird. My sleep was so rudely interrupted last night by much thunder and lightning, so I rather appreciate the dark at the moment anyway.

1. Rainy days will come. Is it just me or do we forget the rain that comes with spring? As soon as the sun is shining, the birds start singing and a flower pops up from the ground I am so eager to declare, “spring is here!” It’s as if happiness can start again with the fresh season. But then there’s the rain and startling thunderstorms that remind me that growth takes both sunny days and rainy ones (why there has to be thunder, I’ll never really know). Thunderstorms late at night feel especially ominous, and I’m not sure if it’s just my memories of bailing out hundreds of gallons of water in our basement or because it feels like the sky is falling therefore things won’t go quite as “planned.” We can’t control the weather, just like we can’t control so many things in our life. That’s a hard pill to swallow (and I am the worst at swallowing pills…takes at least three gulps of water).

If you were able to follow all of the times I went back and forth between literal and metaphorical just now, I commend you. The point is, we have good days among a season of bad ones and bad days in a season of good. We are given no guarantees as to what life will bring.

2. Sometimes you have an awesome day or moment and no pictures to show for it. I had a couple of good days and moments this week: time with lovely friends, long walks in the city, an impromptu doughnut run and tennis with the hubby. I guess you’ll just have to take my word for it.

3. Easter brings a lot of emotion. There are so many cute kids in dress clothes (sometimes even in bonnets!) hunting for eggs and baskets. The churches are full and people eat ham. But without all that, Easter might feel like just another day. Except it’s not. It’s not about pastel colors or brunch or sugar-covered marshmallows. Easter is about redemption. That’s what brings me joy.

Job Search Struggle

April 8, 2015April 8, 2015Samantha Gratton

Okay, many of you know that I’ve done my share of job searching in the past. For some of you, I’m sure that statement alone cues an eye roll as it’s old news. Here’s the thing, no one seems to openly talk about the struggle in a job search. We talk about the successes and the outcomes, but rarely the struggle as it shows weakness and vulnerability. Not to mention, if you share such things publicly, it can make for a weird second interview. The problem is, when no one hears about the struggle they assume their struggle is an isolated issue. Well, ladies and gentlemen, here I come to save the day…

Searching for jobs sucks. Oh, excuse my language. I meant to say, it’s really, REALLY hard.

So, if you’re out there wondering why that job you want hasn’t happened yet, let me just reassure you that you’re not alone. From time to time we all meet that oddball of a person who just seems to “happen” upon their job and effortlessly climb the career ladder. Either a company approaches them first or their initial application in the search just got scooped up from the pile and a generous offer simply falls in their lap. (If you are one of those oddballs: 1. Congrats, you lucky duck. 2. You will not relate to the rest of this post, so you might as well walk away now. 3. I know you feel like it was merely all your hard work paying off, which might be true…but some of the rest of us also work really hard but it hasn’t quite paid off in the same way yet.)

Job searches start hopeful: There’s another opportunity out there that will suit you and pay better and make all your dreams come true.

Over time, they rip you to shreds: Oh you applied to that? Well, it went straight to the trash and you’re not good at anything.

Okay, stop! You are good at things, so just quit believing that lie. Write down your list of strengths right now and tack them to your fridge or mirror or whatever you look at a lot. Now remind yourself this search takes time. It also takes a whole lot of perseverance and effort. But just because it takes time does not mean you’ve suddenly become worthless.

In the past year I applied to nearly 60 jobs. I’m talking a custom cover letter, revised resume and all 7 pages of the application form for every one of those jobs. People would ask me how the job search was going and all I could say was that it was “still on”. I’ve been rejected so many times by companies that don’t even have the decency to send an automatic email. Of those jobs, I interviewed for 17 positions (many of which included several rounds of interviews). I was a finalist 8 times and almost always under the impression that I got the job. Do you know how hard it is to be the runner-up in an interview process? You think the next time you hear from them it will be with an offer but instead find out you’re left with nothing but dashed hopes and a wrinkled suit.

How do I know the numbers? I have a master spreadsheet containing information on every job I applied for. I included the title and company of the position, the date I applied, the referral I used if I had one and record of any communication I had with the company, whether it was an automatic email or my handwritten thank you card after an interview. Two months of searching went by…three…six…eight…to the point where I wondered if I would ever be hired again.

So what’s my point in saying all this? To give you a taste of what a real job search struggle looks like. By no means am I trying to discourage you or scare you. In fact, just the opposite. I’m confirming all your frustrations that this might be a long and painful process. I’m also saying, it’s not just you.

Even though you have not heard the feedback you want, don’t lose hope. Sure, you might have to pivot and think of different angles and opportunities that fit your strengths, but don’t mistake that for being worthless or unwanted. You bring value to a team. You have strengths and skills that are desirable and important. But you can’t give up. You have to keep going.

Go to the networking events that slowly seem to suck the life out of you. Reach out to the person who might be able to give you a referral. Send your resume to the people closest to you and see where it can get circulated. Apply for the job that you might first think you are under- or overqualified for and see where it goes. Set a schedule and make a list of all the places you plan to regularly check for jobs. Ask someone you know who works in HR or editing/communications to look over your cover letter. Find someone in your field to critique your resume. Continue to invest in yourself and your skills.

Know that you aren’t alone and press forward.

Money Talk: Saving for Travel

April 6, 2015April 4, 2015Samantha Gratton

Oh, two very different seeming things: money and travel. One is really fun to talk about and the other is quickly avoided. I shared a glimpse about our approach regarding money awhile ago and hope to continue to write more about money in the future as a way to encourage and inspire.

Can I start by saying that I love traveling? I really do. So much so, that it is definitely given more weight in my budget than the average person might. There are days I just want to say, “let’s go!” and completely ignore all financial repercussions. I see travel as important. But I also believe we should be good stewards of our money (aka take care of what you’ve been given).

So what’s a girl to do when she loves to travel but it’s crazy expensive? Be realistic about it. I can’t pretend it doesn’t cost money to travel, just like I can’t pretend that I’m done traveling. By being honest about both of those things I can better move forward and budget accordingly (so if you have a love for travel…or shopping or sports or music, I’d recommend taking the same approach). In the past I’ve found that if I pretend that something isn’t important to me and leave it out of the budget that doesn’t actually end up saving me money. Instead, it ruins my budget because that love inevitably gets my money but I never accounted for it. See what I’m saying? Start by being honest.

Now, just because I love traveling (or shopping, sports, music, etc.) does NOT mean that all self-control goes out the window. I don’t get a free pass just because it’s a passion of mine. There was a plan and a budget to take our trip to Argentina, as boring as that might sound. Oh and trust me, there were days that it seemed like that plan was going to take forever.

A few years ago, we said this trip was important to us. Before we even knew where we wanted to go, we started saving. Our plan was to put aside all “extra” money. All Christmas money, birthday money, tax refunds and freelance money went into a separate account set aside for this big trip. Once we had saved up a 3-6 month emergency fund with our income (that’s 3-6 months living expenses in case who-knows-what happens) we said we could start allotting some of our income towards the trip fund as well. There were times that it was really annoying that all of our extra fun money was already marked for the trip when we wanted to use it for something else, something that brought a little more instant gratification.

If you want to spend money on a passion/hobby/interest/goal, instant gratification has got to go. Drop the impulse buys, start saying no to good things–things you like but aren’t as important as your financial goal. Things that don’t go and you do keep spending money on: groceries, rent/mortgage, utility bills, medical expenses, paying off debt and saving for a rainy day.

Because guess what? I was without a full-time job for the better part of last year. That did not fit in the plan. It was SO frustrating to feel like my goals were on hold, not only professionally and personally, but financially, too. The good news? We had a few months of an emergency fund saved, and we had already rearranged our spending habits to live on much less than our income. We tightened up our budget a bit more and had to make some tough decisions, but we were also able to keep the trip savings mostly intact during the time it took to find other employment.

Saving for your goals, for the fun stuff, is important. But making sure you also save for the unknowns is vital. Just like you can’t ignore your passions and dreams, you can’t ignore your responsibilities either when it comes to finances. So, that meant we saved for years and that might not sound very inspiring. But what is inspiring is that we don’t have any debt from that trip so when we took it, we got to completely enjoy it.

There are things in life that come up and I don’t want to pretend that everyone is able to just save and go in a few years. There are big financial commitments, health emergencies and limitations out there that are real. Sometimes I hesitate to even tell these stories because I don’t want it to sound like I take these opportunities lightly. Instead, I hope to encourage and inspire you that with patience and planning, more is achievable than you think.

Money isn’t an easy topic and frankly, writing a series on it is super strange for me. But I know it matters and has an impact, which has compelled me to be open and available for the conversation with anyone who wants to have it.